ENERGY FIELDS

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ENERGY FIELDS

Post by StosifJalin on Thu Oct 02, 2014 3:30 pm

I've been thinking about how energy fields currently work in the game, and I've found several things I dislike.

Power- By in-game rules, the power field has a chance to stop ANYTHING. It can be used against every hit, unlike a dodge or parry, and it can block a titan's main cannon.

Inconsistancy- The same field that can "nope" a tank shell will just as easily let a wooden arrow peg you in the eye. Instead of an interesting tool to work a strategy around, it becomes a game randomizer that has no link to the characters or the decisions they make.

Here is my alternative suggestion to dealing with powerfields. This is an example:

Iron Halo
Field Rating: 50
Recharge rate: 1d10+7
When damage is assigned to your character, subtract the total from the Iron Halo's Field Rating, ignoring Pen.
At the beginning of every round, add the recharge rate to the Field rating till the max is reached. This field cannot block certain damage like falling, warp inflicted damage, or fire that occurred when the field was down and is inside the shield (we can use some common sense here.)

(I would like to add an overload rule somewhere, and all the stats here can be changed with your input for balancing)

I feel that this consistent protection offeres much more to a user in terms of decision making.
Currently, a human player with a energy field has to make this "decision" in this situation:

Enter dangerous combat and either
A. Die instantly with 4 armor, 4 toughness, and 9 wounds.
B. Be saved by field and actually get to do the really cool thing your human specializes in.

Now imagine playing, knowing you have a relatively reliable power field of 30 +1d10+5 per turn.
You can leave cover, knowing you at least have a chance to do your cool idea before your shield is depleted and you make it back to safety and Regen. When you're back in cover, call for reienforcements! Prepare a big spell. Reload or setup demo charges to blow up your enemies when you fall back. There are some really cool actions that we rarely see in combat. When you're ready to get back into the fight, your shields are back online.

You won't accidentally survive a Titan Cannon to the face anymore, but hey, that would be a justifiable death wouldn't it? It is annoying to think of anything surviving that because the field decided to pop into existence.

Leave the game-changing skill tests to the characters, not the equipment.

So that's my idea. No more coin-flipped "nope" shields, and more decision making. Input and suggestions will be appreciated!
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Re: ENERGY FIELDS

Post by Brass Doge on Thu Oct 02, 2014 6:43 pm

Speaking crunch wise, on the table top an invulnerable save is a save you can take when the weapon is strong enough to punch through your armor entirely. Take a Titan's Cannon for example: the strength of the weapon is classed as D (for destroyer). This means nothing can stop its wrath, not even a storm shield. The strength of the weapon is compared to the toughness of the things its shooting and, if the strength of the weapon doubles toughness of the target, it recieves no invulnerable save. This is referred to as Instant Death. It means the weapons might was just so great that the field wasn't enough to stop the punishment it received. Now while fields may work flawlessly on the tabletop for smaller arms fire, it seems like it was modified in the RPG to add a sense of "mysticism". The technology we use is old, based on ideas and blueprints even older. The Imperium is in a state of technological stagnation, and subsequently the human forces of chaos as well since we acquire a lot of the technology from Imperial forces.  To change it so force fields always work would be too convenient, assuming that each field generator was in pristine condition and flawless. Perhaps in the old days when it was first made, but with designs that have been used for 10,000-ish years there are bound to be flaws and discrepancies. This also factors the "nope shield" idea. While a GM may rule that a Heavy Bolter salvo is blocked by the storm shield, there is no way its going to cover the Leman Russ Tank line you had the misfortune to come upon. I'm open to changes decided, but it would seem a bit strange for all shields to work always for me.
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Re: ENERGY FIELDS

Post by StosifJalin on Thu Oct 02, 2014 7:06 pm

The new shield concept wouldn't always be working for you. It only reduces damage that it can soak, and then it is dropped to 0 and you start taking rounds as normal. Say my shields are full, at 30. Bolt hits me. 16 damage. Shield is at 14 now. Another bolt hits me for 20 damage, and drops the shield to 0 with 5 carrying over, which I soak with armor/toughness.

If I get hit again before my round, that's all natural damage, my field is down.
Finally, its my turn, and I recharge for 7. That just makes so much more sense to me than the current method.

How does the normal shield just decide it is going to exist for a second, block a bolt, let the next through, and then block the third in one volly?

I get that the tech is super glitchy in the 40k grim dark world of grim dark grim darkness, but the shields in the RPG are just poorly done IMO. If we need flaws and discrepensies to make them more random, then let's add them to a system that at least makes sense.
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Re: ENERGY FIELDS

Post by Brass Doge on Thu Oct 02, 2014 7:16 pm

It doesn't block every other, it would either block all or none, depending on if it activates. Sure, they probably did a pretty side-screwed method of interpreting shields, but its what they thought would work best. Imagine the tactical marine shooting at you. Either the shield recognizes the high velocity rounds screaming towards you as a threat, or perceives them as your Night Lord buddy coming at you (at incredible speeds) to give you a high five. Perhaps they shouldn't be changed so drastically, but adjusted so that the randomness isn't such a huge player. I'm just a bit concerned that if we start using force fields in this manner, it just turns into a Halo RPG and its more about pushing yourself to the brink, before ducking back to safety. It would make some people, especially those with high chances of survival (high toughness, appropriate talents) leagues ahead of those who don't and would make them nigh unstoppable. The game would have to be modified to accommodate this, putting those without force fields in an awkward position of facing heavy damage without having something to fall back on. Only a few of the current group have force fields, and it would increase the chances of death for those who don't have a force field. Now I know its common and expected for a guy to die, but it cranks up the knob to 11 for those without field protection.
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Re: ENERGY FIELDS

Post by StosifJalin on Thu Oct 02, 2014 7:46 pm

Math time.
Normal field. Field rating 30.
Equates, on average to 30% reduced damage. So say 10 bullets come in, each doing 20 (pen 0, for simplicity), in the course of a single round of combat.
All on average, not counting overload, considering we haven't thought of one for my alternative model yet.

Current system.
From one guy, Damaged blocked =60 (although this is only on average of thousands of rolls. In practice, this is either 200dmg or 0)
From ten different guys, Damaged blocked =60
1 at a time, over 10 rounds, Damaged blocked=60

New system. Recharge rate 1d10+5 (averaged to +10 per round)
From one guys, Damaged blocked =30
From ten different guys, Damaged blocked=30
1 at a time, over 10 rounds, Damaged blocked =120

So, on average, in a straight up chance comparison, the new system would block much less in the combat we currently play in. Big hits. Little damage over time would be better, with a +10 "trickle charge" every turn, but still pales the the current systems potential for frustrating unbalance.

The data shows the new system would not make armored  and shielded players more unbalanced than they already are.


Last edited by StosifJalin on Thu Oct 02, 2014 7:51 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Re: ENERGY FIELDS

Post by Brass Doge on Thu Oct 02, 2014 7:48 pm

Anyone else want to input on this?
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Re: ENERGY FIELDS

Post by Vulgate on Thu Oct 02, 2014 9:39 pm

I see no need to change the current field system.
Having relied on 2 shields in Deathwatch taking both saved and failed throws, I actually quite enjoy the randomness of the field.
It is not meant to assure anyone of survival through reliability, as this is the grim darkness of the 41st Millenia, but instead offers a chance of a final "invulnerable" saving throw.
This system has persisted across all of 40K RPG that I have seen, and as such is not an intentional glitch or even a very unpopular mechanic.
The shields themselves are god-sends: an extra free saving throw that is regulated through chance.
The nature of danger to characters comes from the split nature of our party: Humans AND Space Marines. Humans, as we have seen, are far from "instantly dead" in most combat scenarios, and any one situation where a force field is required to survive will result in a dead human regardless.  

If enough people would like a change to this system, I would be fine with implementing one, but as a general rule I do not like straying from the path that FFG has already setup for us.
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Re: ENERGY FIELDS

Post by Auchindoun on Fri Oct 03, 2014 11:30 pm

I think this is a very interesting idea, although I do somewhat stand by Darien. You played WoW right? Or League? Take a patch in one of these games for example: if even one thing is a bit overpowered, everyone abuses that one thing until its taken out, and everyone who doesn't have it either A) Suffers the consequences or B) Has to waste their "acquisition" to get this, when they actually wanted that extra boost to their overall characteristics or something. I would say that it's such a strong buff that we would also abuse it.

For example:

Syn, my assassin, would simply run in and use his projectile attack, giving him 3-4m of cover in a 10m cone from himself. Okay, so now that I have cover, I'll run up to my target with my AEtheme blade fearless of dying as a puny human about to take out this space marine, and slice him, causing him to hallucinate. My poison backfires, and he goes into a Frenzy! So, as a human I would be fucked, but I have this regen field. Let him hit me, detox him, then go back into cover. Rather than what it should be... "OHSHITGETMETHEFUCKOUTOFHEREIFUCKEDUP"

If it can be tweaked I would say maybe, but even then I would want to wait to implement this until we get more comfortable playing Black Crusade.

Just my two cents.
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Re: ENERGY FIELDS

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